i take no offense to any of that. but i should mention that i have graduated & been out of college for a few years. i did approach hemingway on my own terms and found him severely lacking (except for, as i said, "the sun also rises."). but i think you are right, it is very much like comparing spicy Indian food to oatmeal. i think my reaction to hemingway is an at least partially petulant reaction to a sub-par american-lit survey professor and a matter of personal taste (or the lack thereof?), i guess. i spoke about all of this with a truly great survey professor and he tried to turn me on to "a farewell to arms," as an antidote to "old man." i was really, truly disappointed. but enough doom and gloom from me. "all of roddy doyle's work" indeed! there is a passage in "the snapper" or "the van" which i can't repeat here but made me laugh as hard as i ever have (with the possible exception of the chief's family's eviction problems in "catch 22."). let me just say it involved a pun with the word "coconut." i also, for god knows whatever reason, feel compelled to mention "the god of small things" and "the english patient." i guess i bring them up as recent examples of what fiction can do when inspired. hemingway, if you'll forgive me, never reaches those kinds of ... flights of prose fancy, in my tiny, humble opinion. i understand that that is the point, the minimalism, and that he was a journalist, etc. but his work also just strikes me as being bereft of something important, maybe tenderness (which is, ultimately, my chief attraction to salinger). well i've beaten that horse carcass long enough. sorry to get off track. last thing: i am of the opinion that "for esme" is salinger's most accomplished and beautiful work of art. any thoughts? rick