Subject: Re: Music, religion, etc.
From: jason varsoke (jjv@caesun.msd.ray.com)
Date: Tue Jan 18 2000 - 17:30:38 EST
On Tue, 18 Jan 2000 AntiUtopia@aol.com wrote:
> Dude..where are you getting your facts about the Bible? I've read
> scholarship across the spectrum here and No One - not liberals, not
> fundamentalists, not rationalists -- date any of the New Testament books as
> late as 300 AD. Some date Revelation late 2nd century, I think, but that's
> about it. . .the most recent scholarship I've read about Matthew says that
> the Aramaisms present in the Greek text make it look like a translated
> document -- like it was written in Aramaic then translated into Greek. That
> could make it Very early.
>
> Luke claims to have been compiled from eyewitness reports, John was
> supposedly written by an eyewitness (it claims to have been), Matthew has no
> internal claims to authorship, but the earliest church fathers (prior to the
> mid second century AD) attest that it was written by Matthew (an eyewitness),
> while Mark is often associated with Peter, another eyewitness.
Sorry about the 300CE, that was when they developed the whole AD idea
in the first place and assessed JC's birthday (which is wrong by about 7
years).
Having said that, this is what I can say with certainty:
1. The earliest texts in the New Testment are Paul's letters (somewhere
around 60s CE);
2. The Gospel according to Mark was written shortly after the
destruction of the Second Temple, that is, around 70s CE (some scholars
say before, but I am inclined to think that, because of the Gospel's
content, it was written after the Temple's destruction);
3. The Gospels according to Matthew and Luke were written probably two
decades later than Mark;
4. The Gospel of John was written somewhere between the last decade of
the 1st century CE and the beginning of the 2nd century CE -- it is
theologically more developed, more abstract and has no cute/interesting
stories about JEsus' life, it is much more apologetic in nature. That
means that the sense of identity of John's community was already defining
itself AGAINST others, and for that you need time. Plus, you can trace the
influence of Greek philosophical ideas in it.
5. Most other things in the NT were probably written in the second
century CE.
6. As to the authors of the gospels: I do not know because no one
knows. Everything we think we know, we infered. Of course, usually we do
this intelligently (all the sciences are employed, from sociology to
archeology), but we still infer. Even some letters attributed to Paul were
probably not written by him; scholars agree that only 7 of Paul's letters
in the NT were indeed written by him (they usually use social history and
theological exegesis to prove this). But the fact that some letters
attributed to Paul had totally different theological ideas, language,
etc., and the fact that they were written in his name, implies that by the
time that they were written, they intentionally used Paul's name had
gained som authority among the ancient Christians. Again, for someone to
has the authority you need some time. The authors of the Gospels could
have been 4, or many. Again, we can only infer from what we have.
7. Many gospels and letters that are not included in the canon were
written later, late 2nd/3rd century. Their authors usually claimed to be
eyewitnesses of Jesus' life. So much for morality, huh?
8. And were aren't even talking about the parts that got thrown away.
-jay
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