Subject: Re: Music, religion, etc.
From: jason varsoke (jjv@caesun.msd.ray.com)
Date: Tue Jan 11 2000 - 18:08:25 EST
On Tue, 11 Jan 2000 AntiUtopia@aol.com wrote:
> 1. The inherent irrationality of religious faith.
>
> as introduced by Robbie. My point is that people believe, not on the basis
> of logical proof, but on the basis of personal experience. And I said
> (repeatedly) that no one should believe unless **they themselves** have had
> that experience.
>
> Now please pay attention. This stage of the discussion is wearying to me
> simply because people aren't paying attention.
sorry, started reading late. Was unsubscribed to the last list. Still
subscribed to the new one, hoping some of the fotsam would not carry over.
So I missed the first cause (heh) of this discussion. Addressing that:
(and I don't care who I'm supporting, I'm shooting for the truth).
Religious Faith being Irrational: Jim, you're taking the tact that we
believe because we experience God. I'm going to take that to be your
premise so we can ignore the belief because others believe and so on.
With any experience you have an immediate reaction to it. That
reaction is to ascribe the cause of the belief to the first thing that
comes to mind. The first thing that comes to mind is influence by your
learning, and what society believes.
For example:
A person makes a rabbit disappear into a hat. You might think, hey
they guy can anhillate matter. You might think, this guy has the power of
God and can work miracles. You might think, hey that's magic. Or you
might think, I must have missed something.
Now one of the above is true, but you can believe anything you want to
believe. You saw the rabbit vanish. And believe me, if you did not grow
up in a materialist science based culture, you certainly wouldn't believe
the last one.
So, if no one suggested that God existed you think you would come up
with it on your own? Think of what a big leap that would be for someone
in a materialistic scientific society.
But you had the experience of God. And you know it was God how? I've
had many experiences I couldn't explain. I've had some sort of Zen
experience where I didn't feel there was a me any longer; I was running at
the time and because of the feeling ran for 24 miles. I usually do 4 and
am exhaused. I wasn't even out of breath after 24. Was it God?
So what makes you ascribe your experience to God? Have you ever been
able to verify that it was actually God and not something else? Are those
people who believe God spoke to them and asked them to kill Barney
rational?
Look, I'm saying that God doesn't exist; But belief in God is
irrational. I think it's supposed to be. That's why it's Faith and not
reason.
-jason
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