Re: What is a God?

Jim Rovira (jrovira@juno.com)
Thu, 01 Jul 1999 14:32:50 -0400 

On Thu, 01 Jul 1999 11:01:25 -0400 (EDT) jason varsoke
<jjv@caesun.msd.ray.com> writes:
>> As we get more and more into this we get farther and farther from 
>the
>> nature of the Greek gods, don't we?  They kinda move around and do 
>what
>> they want regardless of our presence.  
>
>   Actually, the last statement is false.  The Greek gods are not
>independent of mankind.  They revolted against the Titans if you 
>remember.
>And the difference between the Titans and the Gods is that the Gods 
>are
>worshipped by the humans.  The implication is that the worship somehow
>gave the gods the power to overthrow the Titans.
>

Well, see, my understanding is that the Greek Gods overthrew the Titans
prior to the existence of human beings, but I could be wrong.  Beyond
this, however, it seems clear to me in Greek mythology that the gods were
really in charge, did what they wanted, and if we are smart we appease
the most powerful ones in every way we can. In Christian teaching, human
beings are really in charge of the earth, and if even God Himself wants
to exercise full authority over the earth, He's gotta become human to do
it.  That is why Christ is referred to as the Second Adam in the book of
Romans.    

>   In the discussion as a whole I think you two (Thor and Jim) should
>work on a few definitions first.  For example what is the different
>between a God, Demi-God and an Angel.

That's the thing -- that's the nature of our discussion here.  That's the
very issue we've been discussing, etc., etc.

The first and most important difference is that "Gods and demigods" are
part of Greek theology and literature, while "God and angels" are part of
Hebrew theology and literature.  What Thor seems to me to be saying by
identifying Satan with some kind of demigod is that the two theologies
and literatures say essentially the same thing.  And that's just, well,
wrong.  

  I've always gotten the 
>impression
>from the Bible that Satan could always be trumped by God, if God 
>really
>wanted to.  I think for Jim this means that Satan is not a god.  But 
>Thor
>still looks at it as, well Satan can do everything God can do, except
>trump God.  Sure sounds like a god to me too.  One just out ranks the
>other. 
>
>-j

No, Satan cannot do everything God can do :)  Satan is not a God in the
same sense that Yahweh is.  That's waaaay off the mark.  You're better
off arguing for an identification between the Greek gods and angels,
which is what I thought Thor was doing.

Yahweh, God, in the Hebrew Scriptures, is without beginning nor end,
chronologically, ontologically, and in power.  God created the entire
universe ex nihilo, by His word alone.  Satan is a created being that
exists in one place at one time (in senses we don't completely
understand), incapable of creating anything at any time, especially out
of nothing.  There's no comparing the two.  It's like comparing a man to
his shadow, and saying the two are the same because one has the same
basic outline as the other :)  The real counterpart to Satan is the
arch-angel Michael, who wars against Satan in Rev. 13 and wins.

Now, if you want to compare Greek gods to angels, you can do a lot
better.  Angels (sons of God, and presumed to be fallen angels by most
readings) are recorded as coming down to earth and mating with human
females, producing a race of superhuman beings (see the book of Numbers).
 They often travel around disguised as human beings, but can do all kinds
of things like strike an entire crowd blind.  All of this has a great
many parallels in Greek literature.  The Jewish/Christian (and it's very
important that I say Jewish-Christian, because a Greek-Christian point of
view would produce something a bit different) point of view in this has
been that, at best, Greek mythology misinterprets the activities of
angels and demons and ascribes them to independent spiritual entities --
"gods."

But Medieval Christianity did move closer to a synthesis of Greek gods
and Biblical angels, I think, than we see in any Christian theology
today.

Thanks for you post, J, I think it did help clarify the issues a bit.

Jim
       

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