Re: Salinger turns to the Dark Side

Jim Rovira (jrovira@juno.com)
Tue, 29 Jun 1999 12:39:36 -0400 

On Tue, 29 Jun 1999 09:18:49 -0700 (PDT) Thor Cameron
<my_colours@hotmail.com> writes:
>>Jim wrote:
>>In Christian belief, Good and Evil aren't two
>>equally powerful but separate Gods.
>
>Well, actually they kinda are.  Not equally powerful, but definitely 
>two 
>seperate gods, both possessing supernatural powers.
>

We do have to be careful when we're talking about the beliefs of others
:)  I think that's one point that we both need to learn...

If you define "gods" as "one possessing supernatural powers" then I
suppose you could say that.  But the Christian church rejected dualism a
looooong time ago.  What you describe sounds more like Manicheaism than
Christian orthodoxy.  Evil beings aren't "separate" from God and
self-existent.  They're running on God's energy, so to speak, just
running in their own direction.  

>But the Force, my religion, and, in fact many religions believe that 
>this is 
>not so, that good and evil are not seperate, but opposite sides of the 
>same 
>coin.
>

That is true.  I didn't deny that.  I still think you don't really
understand my criticism of Lucas here.  

First, I'm criticizing Lucas.  Not the belief that good and evil are not
separate.  I believe we can dialog about the first, I was not sure about
the possibility of dialog about the second.

In Lucas, good and evil are not separate.  But the fight between them is
still real and valid.

In the Vedas (as I understand them), good and evil are not separate, thus
the fight between them is ultimately illusory.  The illustration I used
about the doctor and the cancer I got from buddhists and hindus I've
spoken to.  

>I was trying to point out that you statement of Lucas wanting to "have 
>his 
>cake and eat it, too" was misplaced.  Having the Light & Dark sides of 
>the 
>force be the same force, just opposite sides is a legitimate position 
>to 
>take, one that millions of humans believe in.

That's where I disagree with you.  And here's where I think you
misunderstand me.  Read very, very carefully.  

Belief in the existence of light and dark sides of the same force is held
to by millions, I suppose, in some form.  Disbelief in that is also held
to by millions as well, so the "millions" you speak of are irrelevant if
we were indeed discussing the "legitimacy" of that belief.

But we're not discussing the legitimacy of that belief because we haven't
yet established grounds for that discussion.  At least I am not, and I
never have.

Lucas' presentation in Star Wars is not consistent with the beliefs of 
"millions," in my opinion, and that is my criticism.  I think he's
misrepresenting his sources.  Good is still really good and evil is
really evil in Star Wars, but the "millions" who believe in the existence
of dark and light sides of the same force believe the difference between
the two is illusory.  Lucas' films don't acknowledge that.    

>Just because you don't subscribe to it doesn't make Lucas' "Force" an 
>illigitimate point of view.  I was trying to illustrate that thinking 
>of 
>good & bad as siamese twins is a sensible point of view because, going 
>back 
>to my last post, there is nothing, nothing, nothing that is either 
>Good or 
>Bad, only both depending on perspective.
>

Lucas' Force is "illegitimate" because it is misrepresentative of the
source of that belief.

And going back to my last post, there's problems with the belief that
"nothingnothingnothing" is either Good or Bad, depending on perspective. 
In Lucas, bad is really bad and good is really good.  That is the problem
with Lucas's films.  The belief that nothing is really good or bad in
itself has no room in a pantheist theology worth anything at all.  So
Lucas' pantheism is pretty worthless, in my opinion :)  

I have a lot more respect for the Vedas.

>I completely agree with you on all other points about SW weaknesses, 
>but I 
>think the Force is probably the best damned thing about the whole SW 
>mess.
>Thor

I think it's the most banal and childish thing about the whole SW mess. 
I've seen cartoons that handle that theology with more depth.  :)

Jim

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