Re: Cap's bad old days :)

blah b b blah (jrovira@juno.com)
Sat, 27 Mar 1999 08:26:20 -0500 (EST) 

I'll shock you back Camille by agreeing with you. . .with qualifications
below... :)

Jim

On Sat, 27 Mar 1999 15:36:06 +1100 Camille Scaysbrook
<verona_beach@geocities.com> writes:
>Sean Draine wrote:
>> If forced to make this choice, I'd cut whichever program drew the 
>least
>> interest and support from the community it served. If the kids want 
>to
>learn
>> about art, give them art I say! If they prefer balance sheets, well, 
>I
>guess
>> we give them balance sheets.
>
>But here again we have the analogy I used before - does the least bums 
>on
>seats mean that it's the worst play? Is the book that sells twenty 
>copies
>automatically crap compared to the one that sells twenty million? 
>Obviously
>the answer is no. For my money, in 85% of circumstances the one that
>everyone goes to see is generally the one with the least artistic
>integrity.
>
>The trouble with capitalism and art is that one will never coexist 
>happily
>with the other. One is conservative and stodgy and doesn't want to 
>take
>*any* rishs. The other is imaginative and original and wants to take 
>risks
>by the dozen. Neither side is ever going to please the other all of 
>the
>time - i.e. artistic integrity *or* good box office. So you always get 
>a
>compromise. 
>
>And who likes compromises?
>
>Camille

Ok, capitalism in publishing, at least does tend toward conservatism. 
Capitalism in international trade actually tends toward seeing the
cutting edge and being there first...or creating the cutting edge so you
can be there first :)

But since we're talking about Art, we'll stick to that subject.  In
publishing, it means publishers tend to stick with what sells and what
has been proven in the market.  So that does tend to restrict
experimental fiction in the major publishing arena.  

But if you go through the writer's market, you find several listings that
say things like, "no commercial fiction," "we're looking for experimental
stuff," etc.  It's not that there's NO market for this stuff, but that
it's just a smaller market.  The more people contribute to these markets
and invest in it the more capable it will be to support more artists, the
better it will pay, and the closer to the mainstream it will get.

Another thing I was thinking about this discussion...there is a
difference between genius and talent.  There are TONS of talented people
out there who aren't recognized, yes, but very few geniuses....

Jim


>verona_beach@geocities.com
>@ THE ARTS HOLE http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Theater/6442
>@ THE INVERTED FOREST http://www.angelfire.com/pa/invertedforest
>
>> 
>> BTW, if anyone's interested in viewing a large capitalist-supported 
>art
>> collection, you can do so at
>> http://www.microsoft.com/magazine/guides/gallery/. 
>> 
>> -Sean
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Florie Sommers [mailto:writeflorie@hotmail.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, March 25, 1999 9:37 AM
>> To: bananafish@lists.nyu.edu
>> Subject: RE: Cap's bad old days :)
>> 
>> 
>> Sean, What do you cut first in school funding, art classes or 
>business?
>> 
>> 
>> >From: "Sean Draine (Exchange)" <seandr@Exchange.Microsoft.com>
>> >Reply-To: bananafish@lists.nyu.edu
>> >To: "'bananafish@lists.nyu.edu'" <bananafish@lists.nyu.edu>
>> >Subject: RE: Cap's bad old days :)
>> >Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 09:27:16 -0800
>> >
>> >
>> >And again, we have art pitted against capitalism, as if these were 
>> mutually
>> >exclusive. Just to balance the discussion, let me point out that 
>> certain
>> >corporations spend large sums of money on the arts by purchasing 
>> thousands
>> >of paintings and sculptures and by matching employee donations. 
>> >
>> >I agree that the government should fund art, but it's not clear to 
>me 
>> why we
>> >should expect some grant committee to do a better job of rewarding 
>good 
>> art
>> >than we, the actual consumers of art, could do.
>> >
>> >The suggestion that art should have a higher funding priority than 
>> corporate
>> >bailouts is rather amusing. "Sorry, kids, but it's porridge again 
>for 
>> dinner
>> >until mommy and daddy find another job. But the good news is, 
>tonight 
>> we're
>> >going to see the Academy for Mime and Interpretive Dance 
>deconstruct 
>> the
>> >semantic and emotional space surrounding economic 
>disenfranchisement in 
>> the
>> >context of a Marxist interpretation of history."
>> >
>> >And yes, who you know is just as important as what you know. We're 
>a
>> >dreadfully social species.
>> >
>> >-Sean
>> >
>> >
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >From: Florie Sommers [mailto:writeflorie@hotmail.com]
>> >Sent: Thursday, March 25, 1999 7:58 AM
>> >To: bananafish@lists.nyu.edu
>> >Subject: Re: Cap's bad old days :)
>> >
>> >
>> >Matt-
>> >
>> >I agree that there should be equal funding (if not more) for the 
>arts 
>> >and corp. bail-outs. They should also be seen as equally important 
>to 
>> >the county. 
>> >
>> >Florie
>> >
>> >>From: Matthew_Stevenson@baylor.edu
>> >>Reply-To: bananafish@lists.nyu.edu
>> >>To: bananafish@lists.nyu.edu
>> >>Subject: Re: Cap's bad old days :)
>> >>Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 09:05:44 -0600
>> >>
>> >>Camille sides with Ms. Virginia Woolf.  Artists need a "room of 
>their 
>> >own" in
>> >>which to practice and perfect their genius.
>> >>Jim takes the side of a professor I once had who pointed out that 
>> >Chaucer
>> >>never had this "room of his own", nor did Hemingway.
>> >>
>> >>I for one feel that if the government is going to spend millions 
>> >bailing out
>> >>corporations and farmers it shouldn't begrudge the huddled masses 
>a 
>> >federally
>> >>funded arts community...Matt Stevenson
>> >>
>> >>On Thu, 25 Mar 1999 16:18:28 +1100 verona_beach@geocities.com 
>(Camille
>> >>Scaysbrook) wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>>Jim wrote:
>> >>>> Talent -- no, genius -- finds a way in any system, and more 
>often 
>> >than
>> >>>> not it's a pretty difficult way.
>> >>>
>> >>>Yeah ... so what happens to the 90% who fall along the way? Even 
>> >geniuses
>> >>>get sick and tired and need to pay the rent. It's a very 
>> >over-romanticised
>> >>>view of genius for you to take - more and more I realise it's not 
>
>> what 
>> >you
>> >>>know but who; there's so much tosh that gets out there, gets 
>> >published, and
>> >>>somehow finds its way into millions of hands that sometimes I 
>think 
>> >that
>> >>>true talent - that is, originality, danger and innovation - is 
>the 
>> >direct
>> >>>opposite of an advantage.
>> >>>
>> >>>Camille
>> >>>verona_beach@geocities.com
>> >>>@ THE ARTS HOLE http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Theater/6442
>> >>>@ THE INVERTED FOREST http://www.angelfire.com/pa/invertedforest
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>> 
>> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>

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