Sundeep Dougal wrote: > And, yes, Matt, what a shame about poetry translators. When it comes to Rilke, yes. But actually, I was talking about the poetry itself. As most of you know, my primary purpose on this list is to say provoking, vaguely snotty things about the conversation whenever it becomes too celebratory. To heave big rocks into all placid lakes in the haikus that comprise the bfish community. So, as painful as it is: In the west, the haiku ends up a matter of empty simplicity and understatement and a bunch of people with knowing, enlightened grins. It's righteous posturing. JDS for example. His most intolerable posturing (or, if you like, most of his intolerable posturing) involves eastern poetry and enlightenment. I don't see where being curmudgeonly and conceited is commensurate with being elightened or even being on your way to enlightenment. It don't even see where being mysterious is part of being enlightened. That's part of the *image* of being enlightened. Probably the same sort of thing that Sato objected to in the misleading translation. -- Matt Kozusko mkozusko@parallel.park.uga.edu