In a message dated 10/26/99 2:49:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, sgabriel@willamette.edu writes: << Why a first property? Take the example of geometry. >> I think you two may be losing sight of the real topic of the discussion. It's not a "first principle" you're really talking about, but "talking about a first principle" and describing the process by way of analogies -- with binary language, etc. In other words, those axioms of geometry...how are they expressed? Jim